Luna
New Member
"You need a certain darkness to see the stars"
Posts: 40
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Post by Luna on Aug 5, 2014 4:34:22 GMT
My Pluto is Sagittarius in the fifth house - the house of 'pleasures'. I think any house that Pluto comes into is actually a very useful energy, if as Selene puts very well harnessed properly. I tend to see, certainly in the charts of members in my family, that Pluto is more dangerous depending on what sign it enters and how well aspected it is to other planets. My Pluto in Sagittarius makes me someone who likes to explore, and this is a great sort of energy for me seeing as I like to be active and doing things in my life, all the while feeling like I can do it freely and without inhibition - but then my Pluto is square with my Moon: so if I run into trouble or have difficulties dealing with my emotions or expressing them in particular, I'm more prone to bottling it up and going into self-destruct - not, therefore, a constructive use of Pluto energy! Not only that, having my Pluto in the fifth house - which as Calli says is a personal house - means that I need strong, creative outlets in order to exert the destructive energy and regenerate it into something positive so I can then go out and do something active again before my Sagittarius in Pluto feels too suffocated. But other than that, I think Pluto's awesome Thanks for sharing! I have Pluto in Sagittarius and the fifth house as well
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Cro
New Member
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Post by Cro on Aug 6, 2014 0:38:01 GMT
My Pluto is in Sagittarius in the 12th house. Your theory, Selene, makes a lot of sense to me, if I am correct in my knowledge of the houses. The 12th house is about the unconsciousness, about the unknown, about the hidden or mysterious. I have always had a fascination with otherworldly things and religions. Being an empath, I have always known that there are lots of hidden things that can be found, and I have always yearned to discover understand such things. Perhaps that is the Sagittarius kicking in? I used to really struggle with the sensitivity I possess, and only recently have I been able to begin harnessing it and letting it help me.
Is that right? Does that make sense? Is there another way to interpret Pluto in Sagittarius in the 12th house?
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Pluto~
Aug 6, 2014 3:30:36 GMT
Post by Selene on Aug 6, 2014 3:30:36 GMT
My Pluto is in Sagittarius in the 12th house. Your theory, Selene, makes a lot of sense to me, if I am correct in my knowledge of the houses. The 12th house is about the unconsciousness, about the unknown, about the hidden or mysterious. I have always had a fascination with otherworldly things and religions. Being an empath, I have always known that there are lots of hidden things that can be found, and I have always yearned to discover understand such things. Perhaps that is the Sagittarius kicking in? I used to really struggle with the sensitivity I possess, and only recently have I been able to begin harnessing it and letting it help me. Is that right? Does that make sense? Is there another way to interpret Pluto in Sagittarius in the 12th house? That is so cool. I love that. And yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I'd interpret that placement without even having any knowledge about you. Pluto is so... badass. I love looking at Pluto in people's charts... besides Saturn, it's my favorite. Tells you a lot about people's (possibly hidden) talents.
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Cro
New Member
Posts: 23
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Pluto~
Aug 6, 2014 3:35:06 GMT
Post by Cro on Aug 6, 2014 3:35:06 GMT
My Pluto is in Sagittarius in the 12th house. Your theory, Selene, makes a lot of sense to me, if I am correct in my knowledge of the houses. The 12th house is about the unconsciousness, about the unknown, about the hidden or mysterious. I have always had a fascination with otherworldly things and religions. Being an empath, I have always known that there are lots of hidden things that can be found, and I have always yearned to discover understand such things. Perhaps that is the Sagittarius kicking in? I used to really struggle with the sensitivity I possess, and only recently have I been able to begin harnessing it and letting it help me. Is that right? Does that make sense? Is there another way to interpret Pluto in Sagittarius in the 12th house? That is so cool. I love that. And yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I'd interpret that placement without even having any knowledge about you. Pluto is so... badass. I love looking at Pluto in people's charts... besides Saturn, it's my favorite. Tells you a lot about people's (possibly hidden) talents. I love looking at Pluto too! To me, the other planets are moreso "this is how you are" and Pluto is "This is what you might/could be" usually if they tried to be so. I just love Pluto and what it's all about.
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Pluto~
Aug 6, 2014 7:33:30 GMT
Post by (♇)luto on Aug 6, 2014 7:33:30 GMT
Retrograde Pluto in Scorpio in 12th House Sextile Moon & Retrograde Neptune in Capricorn in 2nd House Trine Venus in Cancer in 8th House Pluto is Chart Ruler, Scorpio in 1st House
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Post by Franka on Aug 22, 2014 0:33:09 GMT
Wow I found out something today..
About the exact time I met my Sagittarius boyfriend, Pluto went in Retrograde Sagittarius, in my seventh house/descendant. (This was on June 14/15th 2008) Pluto stayed in Retrograde until November, the month in which we made our relationship official, then it went into Capricorn. (November 26th 2008)
From the most sources I understand that Pluto opposition ascendant/conjunct descendant can mean something good or bad.
Some sources see it as a threat to an already existing relationship: Sharing this because the seventh house/descendant fascinates me to no end, and Pluto's effect even more! Why Pluto would introduce itself to me when going into Retrograde I am not sure.. If someone has more information about me about transiting Pluto let me know!
Some other freaky thing I found out is that our Venus signs are conjunct each other's descendants
Me 1st house: Gemini (House of Aries) 7th house: Sagittarius (House of Libra) Venus: Aries
Him
1st house: Libra 7th house: Aries Venus: Sagittarius
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Pluto~
Aug 23, 2014 19:06:50 GMT
Post by solarflare on Aug 23, 2014 19:06:50 GMT
So the Third House is how you talk to people, ya know? but it makes no sense why i'm SUPER quiet and awkward in one on one convos, when i have jupiter in the 3rd house???
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Post by Selene on Aug 24, 2014 1:58:48 GMT
So the Third House is how you talk to people, ya know? but it makes no sense why i'm SUPER quiet and awkward in one on one convos, when i have jupiter in the 3rd house??? Well, there could be a number of things to explain that. Could be your Capricorn moon, could be the sign your Jupiter is in, could be aspects you have to Jupiter, could be Mercury sign and house, etc. Also I'm going to add to what Calli said and say that besides the third house being "how you talk to people," it could also be what you communicate about yourself to people, whether or not you realize it. So - a person with moon in third house might be perceived as emotional, a person with Pluto in the third house might be perceived as powerful, etc. You may be perceived as outgoing, lucky, friendly, big-hearted, etc. even if you don't necessarily think of yourself as having great social skills. You also mention that you act quiet and awkward in one-on-one convos - what about in group convos? Your Jupiter in the third house might come out there. As for one-on-one convos, maybe look to your moon sign and house?
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plutowings
New Member
so scorpio it hurts
Posts: 20
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Pluto~
Nov 21, 2014 22:07:21 GMT
Post by plutowings on Nov 21, 2014 22:07:21 GMT
wow a lot of pluto in sag here! that's awesome!
i have a theory about the pluto generations: pluto in scorpio: the generation to expose darkness, how to transform pluto in sag: the generation to have a spiritual revolution, to change the way we all think pluto in cap: the authoritative generation, once they are "in charge" is when we will see real change in the world
what do you guys think?
my personal pluto is in scorpio in the 3rd house, conjunction moon and jupiter. i really want to write books on depression one day for young girls, sort of like go ask alice meets the bell jar meets how to beat depression/anxiety for dummies. hopefully being in conjuction with the lucky planet will help bring that about!
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Pluto~
Nov 22, 2014 4:48:01 GMT
Post by erumpere on Nov 22, 2014 4:48:01 GMT
plutowings, I really agree with your Pluto theory. As for my own Pluto, it's in the 4th house, and I don't feel any of the 'fascination with the house's topic' thing that seems to be going on in this thread.... Not sure how I could feel that about the home, anyway. When I was a kid, I had a controlling presence in my home. (He was a Scorpio, as well >_>) I do often feel like my family, and in particular my mother, are holding me back from growing/improving ( transforming, if you will.) I do have this urge to get away from them and transform myself, really get away from what I've become due to my childhood influences and be something else. I guess that could be Pluto. Especially as it's in Sag, so that adds a freedom/travel/get on a higher level aspect to it. And I think these are important, even though the orbs are a bit big (5.5-6.25) - Pluto square Mars and Jupiter. This really does fit in with the 'home holding me back from exploring and acting on my inner drive'!! So it is acting kinda like Saturn, controlling my life, and hopefully in a couple of years I'll break free. The distinctions between Saturn and Pluto that I see manifesting for me are: -Saturn creates fear of the thing (taking initiative/being bold, for me) -Saturn lends a sombre feeling to things? Not sure how to explain this, uh... It's squaring my Venus, which adds seriousness and this uncomfortable feeling, and trining my Moon and Mercury, and this gives me melancholic thoughts and feelings. -Pluto has the transformation element, whereas Saturn is mostly just.... there, making things awkward, but there's no urge to rebel/take control of the situation. This has been pretty enlightening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 20:42:41 GMT
wow a lot of pluto in sag here! that's awesome! i have a theory about the pluto generations: pluto in scorpio: the generation to expose darkness, how to transform pluto in sag: the generation to have a spiritual revolution, to change the way we all think pluto in cap: the authoritative generation, once they are "in charge" is when we will see real change in the world what do you guys think? my personal pluto is in scorpio in the 3rd house, conjunction moon and jupiter. i really want to write books on depression one day for young girls, sort of like go ask alice meets the bell jar meets how to beat depression/anxiety for dummies. hopefully being in conjuction with the lucky planet will help bring that about! Yeah. Between 1984-1995, you saw a lot of "expos[ure] [to] darkness." In fact I argue that it was embraced. There was the punk and goth subcultures. Rock was really popular. The AIDS hysteria. There was also a lot of rebellion. Classic horror movies came out around this time. According to some sites I went to a lot of taboos--rape, incest, murder, etc.--came to light I'm assuming through high profile trials. Pluto in Sagittarius, a lot of people's generation on here, was from 1995 to 2008. I don't know about a spiritual revolution because I often hear adults (people with Pluto in Libra, I think) complain about how we don't "believe in anything anymore" i.e. God. I think we're experiencing more of a social revolution, but I won't completely throw the spiritual one out the window because I was watching CNN lately where Lisa Ling was following this young man as he became a minister. And in the program there it said that there was a lot of young people becoming ministers and all these older people were so happy. So I think some people in our generation is experiencing a spiritual revolution in the religious sense but I think others are experiencing it in a non-religious way. And I think this is coming through the pursuit of knowledge and wanting if not demanding answers. I especially see this with tumblr. I think anyone who has been on there has seen it and whether you personally like it or not, you've learned a lot of things you would have never otherwise have. At least, I know I have and I love it (my Uranus and Jupiter are in Aquarius and my 10th house is also Aquarius; from 1996-2003 Uranus was in Aquarius and Neptune was moving from Capricorn to Aquarius). According to sites I went to, we're suppose to optimistic and question everything. We will change institutions with our knowledge we're gaining from the internet. We have a global perspective and are very aware of the state of the world. We like to travel but not always like people who have differing opinions than us, ironically. We want to try new things and learn new things but get bored easily. I think with us, there's a social schism happening. On one side we're more open and accepting of others and are uniting into groups but on the other side we're less open, more hostile towards different people and are uniting to oppose certain groups. For Capricorn (2008-2024), I think they'll take the knowledge and ideas that the Pluto in Sagittarius generation discovered and make them law or build something from them. (I think earth signs kinda do that, they take whatever the fire signs come up with it and make it a reality.) Here, I've read, governments and institutions will be exposed and teared down. You can see it happening now. All the protests and violence because of the brutality of the government or some other country's government. Hong Kong, Gaza; Ferguson, Missouri. Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma in 2009. North Korea being a hot topic again. The militarization of the police. I know in the U.S. soon, some records about the government are suppose to come out once all the people in office leave. Who knows what'll happen when that comes out. This generation is going to be determined, according to astrologers, which makes sense since Mars is exalted here. The earth will literally change here during this time, both due to the consequences of the other generations such as pollution which is causing more violent storms, global warming and climate change, and the crashing and destruction of the global and local economies and through the change they will bring as they mature and take over. I should mention that Pluto is in Saturn's domain in this sign so I think a lot of humanity's Karma will be exposed, destroyed, and then transformed. I feel like until Pluto moves into Aquarius that this planetary aspect is going to be rough. I feel like we've taken society's institutions for granted as a stabilizing force in our lives and now it's swaying back and forward so close to teetering off and turning into dust but I think once this generation comes into these institutions things will start to look up. But we'll see what happens when Pluto enters Aquarius though since that sign likes to destroy what Capricorn carefully built up. [Sorry for the long post, but I think a book like that would be interesting! I'd definitely read something like that. (My Scorpio is on the 7th house so I like things like that.)]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 21:37:48 GMT
plutowings, I really agree with your Pluto theory. As for my own Pluto, it's in the 4th house, and I don't feel any of the 'fascination with the house's topic' thing that seems to be going on in this thread.... Not sure how I could feel that about the home, anyway. When I was a kid, I had a controlling presence in my home. (He was a Scorpio, as well >_>) I do often feel like my family, and in particular my mother, are holding me back from growing/improving ( transforming, if you will.) I do have this urge to get away from them and transform myself, really get away from what I've become due to my childhood influences and be something else. I guess that could be Pluto. Especially as it's in Sag, so that adds a freedom/travel/get on a higher level aspect to it. And I think these are important, even though the orbs are a bit big (5.5-6.25) - Pluto square Mars and Jupiter. This really does fit in with the 'home holding me back from exploring and acting on my inner drive'!! So it is acting kinda like Saturn, controlling my life, and hopefully in a couple of years I'll break free. The distinctions between Saturn and Pluto that I see manifesting for me are: -Saturn creates fear of the thing (taking initiative/being bold, for me) -Saturn lends a sombre feeling to things? Not sure how to explain this, uh... It's squaring my Venus, which adds seriousness and this uncomfortable feeling, and trining my Moon and Mercury, and this gives me melancholic thoughts and feelings. -Pluto has the transformation element, whereas Saturn is mostly just.... there, making things awkward, but there's no urge to rebel/take control of the situation. This has been pretty enlightening. Yeah. I think Pluto is a both a confronting and subtle challenger. You can't always feel it its power and energy but when you do you do. And I agree with you on not being fascinated by the themes of the house where Pluto is placed but I think it's because Pluto is acting on our subconscious in whatever house it's in. Pluto is also an outer planet too so we don't really feel it even if it does make aspects to inner planets unless a particular transit it going on and aspecting it. So it's influence is subtle but if we think about it deeply I think we can pinpoint where we're feeling challenged and need to transform at. With you it's with the home and the mother. I think Pluto forces us to stand up for ourselves and be responsible for ourselves. If not then it takes over and crushes you and plays power struggles until you transform and learn to lift yourself up from its weigh and restore balance to your power. In the 4th house Pluto is telling you you have to be independent which is why it's making home life and the mother so difficult. You have to learn to find emotional stability and security from within yourself rather than from your family and home life. The karmic lesson of this placement is to " [r]ediscover your deepest feelings about yourself and your sense of security, inner peace, and contentment." And I guess the only way to do that is leave and reinvent yourself. But I would be careful of your Mars, Saturn and Jupiter with this transformation. Both Aries and Mars are feeling the restriction of Saturn's presence but since Saturn is in fall, Saturn may not be able to stabilize the square Mars is making to your Pluto. Jupiter is luck but since it's squaring Pluto you may not be so lucky or if you are, Pluto throws something in your path to undermine it. Saturn being in fall in Aries does makes being more like an Arian a little strange. Saturn feels weird here. Saturn is about restriction while Aries is about action, sometimes even impulsion. So there's a bit of a power struggle here with Aries wanting to go and making Saturn go while Saturn doesn't want to go but instead wants Aries to slow down. And since your Mars is squaring Pluto there may be some delays in your transformation. So if you're concerned with your transformation, I suggest looking to see where the Moon and Cancer, Scorpio, Aries, and Sagittarius are in your chart.
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Pluto~
Nov 22, 2014 22:43:22 GMT
Post by erumpere on Nov 22, 2014 22:43:22 GMT
@lailanights17, I really identify with all that you wrote (and quoted), thank you.
I do feel like I have to learn to rely on myself, and... my old views of my family have been falling away... Sometimes I don't want anything to do with them anymore, I want to be on my own and make my own home, self, path. I do think Saturn in Aries is causing strife, making me afraid to be independent and away from the security that I've grown up with, no-one to rely on but myself to get me through life, and then there's the conflicting feeling of 'I really want to do this' like straining at the ropes that keep me inactive. But overall, I'm not that scared of whatever's gonna happen cause I have too much excitement and desire for change and adventure. I do hope it happens soon... Saturn (long time periods) trine Pluto and Mars square it... :/ But, I generally have an attitude of 'everything that happens is meant to happen' and that everything teaches, lately (past few years) I've been changing and learning quite a bit and if it does turn out I have to wait a few years, I assume I'll be learning more and getting the experiences that I need for my eventual transformation, so meh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 23:04:54 GMT
@lailanights17, I really identify with all that you wrote (and quoted), thank you. I do feel like I have to learn to rely on myself, and... my old views of my family have been falling away... Sometimes I don't want anything to do with them anymore, I want to be on my own and make my own home, self, path. I do think Saturn in Aries is causing strife, making me afraid to be independent and away from the security that I've grown up with, no-one to rely on but myself to get me through life, and then there's the conflicting feeling of 'I really want to do this' like straining at the ropes that keep me inactive. But overall, I'm not that scared of whatever's gonna happen cause I have too much excitement and desire for change and adventure. I do hope it happens soon... Saturn (long time periods) trine Pluto and Mars square it... :/ But, I generally have an attitude of 'everything that happens is meant to happen' and that everything teaches, lately (past few years) I've been changing and learning quite a bit and if it does turn out I have to wait a few years, I assume I'll be learning more and getting the experiences that I need for my eventual transformation, so meh. Yes. Saturn likes to wait and plan everything out which is why it delays things. Aries, as we know, is quite the opposite. Aries wants to jump at every opportunity and only seems to use its head only to smash it against a wall. But at the same time Aries does initiate things. Saturn does too but only after planning. So I think in your case (I have this Saturn placement too, by the way), you might see some traction occur with your Saturn return. I don't know much about it but it's suppose to occur in your late 20s. I think when Saturn returns to its original natal placement (I think that's what it means by "return" but don't quote me on that), it releases whatever it was restricting you from. So I guess in your 20s you'll see yourself moving away from the home, maybe going somewhere (Pluto r in Sagittarius; but check Gemini and Sagittarius because they rule traveling short and long distances respectively) and learning something new (about yourself). In other metaphysical sciences, your early to late 30s is also a time of transformation or really a time of transition to your soul's purpose in this incarnation. (You can check out numerology for more on what exact age this is suppose to start based off your Life Path number. [ Edit: Saturn returns occur around this age too. Jupiter returns occur every 12 years so around 24 you should see good luck and expansion and travels during that time.]) But I think with Saturn though, it restricts us only to force us to work hard to do whatever it is holding us back from. Saturn is Karma and Karma can be unforgiving at times and mess with things that were going good in this life but it's making us work through something to obtain something better. I think your Saturn maybe delaying your transformation a bit because it wants you to do it right. Pluto can make us feel really deeply and with Mars making a square to such a planet, a planet it also co-rules with in Scorpio, Saturn is actually acting in a beneficial way. Your transformation to be independent and move away from the family could have been messy and very emotionally charged and most likely impulsive and at the wrong time, but I think Saturn, by slowing down both Pluto and Mars is making you think it through a little more carefully. Saturn trining the Moon helps with a bit too. So, in this long-winded explanation, I think your Saturn and Pluto are working together with your transformation to make it happen more smoothly rather than right away and causing massive problems along the way. I think Calli said trines make the planets involved activate each other when one of them is "on" so to speak. So if Mars is acting up with Pluto, Saturn will feel it and maybe will restrict Mars--not perfectly because it's in fall but still nonetheless, it'll do something--and calm it down. So again with the Saturn return thing, I think that will activate the beginning of your transformation. I think astro dot com has a chart option that shows returns. So good luck with everything. Moving away and being independent will be tough (I have my Moon in the 4th house so I can only imagine), but just remember it's part of your transformation and you will become an improved version of yourself once its over. Oh, and you're welcome! I try to help sometimes usually by giving too much information lol.
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plutowings
New Member
so scorpio it hurts
Posts: 20
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Pluto~
Nov 24, 2014 20:49:37 GMT
Post by plutowings on Nov 24, 2014 20:49:37 GMT
wow a lot of pluto in sag here! that's awesome! i have a theory about the pluto generations: pluto in scorpio: the generation to expose darkness, how to transform pluto in sag: the generation to have a spiritual revolution, to change the way we all think pluto in cap: the authoritative generation, once they are "in charge" is when we will see real change in the world what do you guys think? my personal pluto is in scorpio in the 3rd house, conjunction moon and jupiter. i really want to write books on depression one day for young girls, sort of like go ask alice meets the bell jar meets how to beat depression/anxiety for dummies. hopefully being in conjunction with the lucky planet will help bring that about! Yeah. Between 1984-1995, you saw a lot of "expos[ure] [to] darkness." In fact I argue that it was embraced. There was the punk and goth subcultures. Rock was really popular. The AIDS hysteria. There was also a lot of rebellion. Classic horror movies came out around this time. According to some sites I went to a lot of taboos--rape, incest, murder, etc.--came to light I'm assuming through high profile trials. Pluto in Sagittarius, a lot of people's generation on here, was from 1995 to 2008. I don't know about a spiritual revolution because I often hear adults (people with Pluto in Libra, I think) complain about how we don't "believe in anything anymore" i.e. God. I think we're experiencing more of a social revolution, but I won't completely throw the spiritual one out the window because I was watching CNN lately where Lisa Ling was following this young man as he became a minister. And in the program there it said that there was a lot of young people becoming ministers and all these older people were so happy. So I think some people in our generation is experiencing a spiritual revolution in the religious sense but I think others are experiencing it in a non-religious way. And I think this is coming through the pursuit of knowledge and wanting if not demanding answers. I especially see this with tumblr. I think anyone who has been on there has seen it and whether you personally like it or not, you've learned a lot of things you would have never otherwise have. At least, I know I have and I love it (my Uranus and Jupiter are in Aquarius and my 10th house is also Aquarius; from 1996-2003 Uranus was in Aquarius and Neptune was moving from Capricorn to Aquarius). According to sites I went to, we're suppose to optimistic and question everything. We will change institutions with our knowledge we're gaining from the internet. We have a global perspective and are very aware of the state of the world. We like to travel but not always like people who have differing opinions than us, ironically. We want to try new things and learn new things but get bored easily. I think with us, there's a social schism happening. On one side we're more open and accepting of others and are uniting into groups but on the other side we're less open, more hostile towards different people and are uniting to oppose certain groups. For Capricorn (2008-2024), I think they'll take the knowledge and ideas that the Pluto in Sagittarius generation discovered and make them law or build something from them. (I think earth signs kinda do that, they take whatever the fire signs come up with it and make it a reality.) Here, I've read, governments and institutions will be exposed and teared down. You can see it happening now. All the protests and violence because of the brutality of the government or some other country's government. Hong Kong, Gaza; Ferguson, Missouri. Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma in 2009. North Korea being a hot topic again. The militarization of the police. I know in the U.S. soon, some records about the government are suppose to come out once all the people in office leave. Who knows what'll happen when that comes out. This generation is going to be determined, according to astrologers, which makes sense since Mars is exalted here. The earth will literally change here during this time, both due to the consequences of the other generations such as pollution which is causing more violent storms, global warming and climate change, and the crashing and destruction of the global and local economies and through the change they will bring as they mature and take over. I should mention that Pluto is in Saturn's domain in this sign so I think a lot of humanity's Karma will be exposed, destroyed, and then transformed. I feel like until Pluto moves into Aquarius that this planetary aspect is going to be rough. I feel like we've taken society's institutions for granted as a stabilizing force in our lives and now it's swaying back and forward so close to teetering off and turning into dust but I think once this generation comes into these institutions things will start to look up. But we'll see what happens when Pluto enters Aquarius though since that sign likes to destroy what Capricorn carefully built up. [Sorry for the long post, but I think a book like that would be interesting! I'd definitely read something like that. (My Scorpio is on the 7th house so I like things like that.)] uhg no this is beautiful! <3 i agree! note: i did say spiritual for a reason. religion DOES NOT equal spirituality at all ever. you can go to to church every damn day, but if you've never felt the spirit... then what are you following so strongly? a rule book? your family? (of course churches are wonderful places and religion is not inherently evil, but religion is man made and full of problems.) i really hope we see some big changes in world government! i can't wait to see what the pisces generation brings, if i get to live that long.
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